Exclusive Interview with Joseph Lee, Co-CEO of Supervillain Labs

Author: Xangle

Last fall, news broke that METAPIXEL, NPIXEL's Web3 gaming division, had been abruptly disbanded. This sudden announcement came just before the official release of the highly anticipated Gran Saga: Unlimited, much to the dismay of fans around the world.

Soon after, however, some exciting news surfaced, as the core members of METAPIXEL reunited to form a new game studio, now known as "Supervillain Labs". Now known as "Supervillain Labs", they will be releasing their first game, "Supervillain Idle RPG", in July of this year.

We arrive at the offices of Supervillain Labs to meet Joseph Lee, Co-CEO. His face is full of confidence and enthusiasm.

"We're the villains destroying the idea of Web2 and Web3 games."

Q: Can you briefly introduce yourself?

A: My name is Joseph Lee and I am the Co-CEO of Supervillain Labs.

Q: Can you tell us a little bit about Supervillain Labs?

Q: Supervillain Labs is a game studio founded with a vision to create games that are up-to-date and bring users closer to the gaming experience. Currently, our team of around 35 members is focused on developing interesting games using blockchain technology.

Q: What inspired the name "Super Villain Lab"?

A: The name was inspired by our desire to challenge existing perceptions of the Web2 and Web3 game markets. People often have fixed ideas like "Web2 games should look like this" or "Web3 games should look like this", but we don't necessarily fall into either category.

We wanted to break the mold. It felt a little bit sinister, and we thought, "If we're going to be villains, why not be the ultimate villains?" And that's how Super Villain Lab was born.

Ask. Why did you decide to form a new company after the dissolution of METAPIXEL?

A: It's hard to pinpoint just one reason, but the biggest factor is probably the sense of unfinished business. We have a loyal following of fans who believe in our vision and love our games at METAPIXEL, but we never deliver the final product. This left us feeling very unsatisfied.

We were so convinced that we could produce a successful game using the methods we had developed that we felt we had to try again. Therefore, we decided to make a concerted effort to make this happen.

Q: How have things changed from your time at METAPIXEL?

A: The biggest change is in our perception. When we first entered the Web3 game market a few years ago, our thinking was limited to maintaining existing market practices with just a few tweaks.

We now design our approach to be more responsive to the needs of gamers, see blockchain more deeply as a technology, and view Web3 not only through the lens of blockchain or token economics, but also as a zeitgeist. Reuniting with former colleagues has allowed us to become more technically mature and have a deeper understanding of blockchain and Web3 games.

"We want Supervillain Idle RPG to be a game that players of all backgrounds can enjoy."

Q: Let's talk about your games. Can you briefly describe your first game, Supervillain Idle RPG?

A: First of all, "Supervillain Idle RPG" is a tentative name, and we'll be announcing the official name soon. It is essentially a "blockchain-enhanced mobile Idle RPG".

Internally, we think of it as an "RPG for smart but lazy people". There are so many different types of placement RPGs out there that it's not compelling to simply call it a placement RPG. That's why we came up with this slogan to better communicate what our game is about.

The game concept revolves around villains and their partners forming decks of cards and embarking on a journey to become a supervillain. In a broad sense, it's similar to our favorite placement role-playing games, but it seamlessly incorporates blockchain elements.

Q: What is the release date? In which areas can I buy it?

A: We plan to begin community testing at the IVS Crypto Kyoto event in early July. We will be inviting game influencers and guilds we work with to experience and share our game in person. Players will also have the opportunity to play it. Additionally, we will be selecting a number of community members to participate in the online beta.

The official global trial is scheduled for the end of July. At this point, it looks like South Korea will not be involved in the debut.

Q: Do you have plans to launch in Korea as well?

A: We are considering this. We are positioned somewhere between a traditional game and a typical Web3 game. We do not issue game tokens, nor is there an element of players earning game tokens from us through the game. In addition to typical token farming, users can trade their game assets between players to earn based on the game item economy. So when asked if it should be considered a P2E or P2A game, the answer is "no". It's more of a game that uses blockchain technology to manage data and connect it to users.

While I don't think launching the app in Korea is completely out of the question, we are currently in a gray area. We need to comply with the guidelines and regulations issued by the government. If necessary, we may need to adjust or remove certain features.

Q: Are your games more casual or hardcore?

A: At first, it feels like a relaxed and casual game. However, given the nature of role-playing games, the game can become more hardcore as players compete against each other. That said, our goal is to gradually shift that competition to a more community-based one.

Q: What exactly do you mean when you say competition is "community-based"?

A: This is in line with our vision of tying game content to user communities. For example, fans can naturally join guilds run by influential people and enjoy the game together. That's just one example, but we're focused on building community. Instead of individuals competing against each other, we envision communities competing against each other.

Of course, we won't be able to implement all the features right off the bat, so we'll start with light individual contests. Gradually, we plan to develop this into a community tournament. During this process, we will keep communicating with the community to make decisions.

Q: You recently hosted an NFT casting event. When you say your game incorporates blockchain elements, are you referring to NFT?

A: It's not just NFTs. it has to do with the change in perception I mentioned earlier. Previously, Web3 games required connecting to a wallet, signing transactions and casting NFTs during gameplay in order to use them.

However, we implemented in-game use of social logins to generate Aptos addresses based on items, which accumulate in inventory through Aptos' on-chain database. While on-chain technology is integrated, it doesn't disrupt the familiar gameplay experience for players, so they don't even realize it's on-chain.

For example, the "Ambassador Badges" we distributed at the first event will be used for community voting. Voting will be done seamlessly through a user-friendly UI without having to connect to the NFT as was previously the case, and our goal is to use blockchain as a technology application and present it in a way that makes sense to gamers, rather than putting it at the forefront.

Q: What area of game design do you focus on the most?

A: The main focus is on maintaining a sustainable balance within the game, supported by an item-based game economy. Balancing these two aspects is critical.

The "Sidekick" NFT collection is currently traded on Aptos, and users familiar with NFT often wonder about its availability and the benefits of owning multiple items. However, the supply of game items cannot be fixed, as their availability needs to increase with the number of new users. Therefore, we chose to limit the total number of top items that everyone would like to have access to, rather than controlling the total availability of all items.

As the game service evolves, we will adjust the number and level of items based on the overall balance. In doing so, we will utilize the transparency of the data on the chain through a dashboard that shows how many items have been issued and who owns them. By providing this transparency, we aim to create a game economy that users can predict.

Q: Is blockchain critical to designing a predictable economy?

A: This helps reduce costs. If we were to open up the game database, we would need to create a lot of new infrastructure. But our items already run on the chain. Anyone can access the data on the chain, which is much more efficient than building a whole new system of our own to disclose the data.

The irreversible nature of blockchain also has advantages. Korean game companies are required by law to disclose item drop rates, but controversy remains. If we disclose our database without using blockchain, the question remains, "Will users really trust it?" From this perspective, using blockchain can reduce social costs and build greater trust.

Q: As you know, Web3 is still not suitable for mobile devices. How do you plan to solve this problem with your service?

A: We believe that mobile accessibility is critical to making it easy for traditional players to play our game. Since we are also targeting traditional players, we want to make sure that the on-chain elements do not become an obstacle.

That's why we wanted to eliminate the need for a traditional wallet experience in games. Previously, logging in with a wallet severely hindered mobile accessibility. In our game, once a player registers and starts playing, any "Sidekicks" they earn appear in their inventory as NFTs. This is because we create the user's account inventory as an on-chain account.

At this time, we have no plans to offer a marketplace, so certain community features (such as trading) will be supported on the web. However, we will not completely differentiate between mobile and web experiences. Users will be accessing the game primarily through mobile devices, but if they want to engage with the Web3 elements, they can do so on the web. We plan to support both platforms.

Q: How will the trading system evolve?

A: Trading game items on the traditional NFT marketplace can be quite inconvenient. Unlike the traditional in-game item market, where items have fixed prices and can be purchased in bulk, on the NFT market you must find and purchase each NFT individually.

If a trading system or smart contract for the NFT marketplace is made available at the API level, we would like to be able to trade through Discord channels, fan communities, or even traditional online marketplaces like Amazon. If our game and Discord account information were linked through the same Google account, trading could be seamlessly integrated into platforms like Discord.

Of course, we will not be able to implement all of these features at once, so they will be done in stages.

Q: What items will be released as NFTs?

A: We plan to release Sidekick and Supervillain as NFTs. "Sidekick" enhances the abilities of the "Villain" character, so it's not essential to the gameplay, but it's attractive to players who want to reach the top rankings.

We will be adjusting the balance and setting a price cap based on MAUs to ensure items are traded at a fair price. Players will be able to obtain all items through the exchange once they are released.

Q: What do you think is the competitive advantage of Supervillain Idle RPG?

A: I think the answer lies in the question, "Why use Web3 technology in games?" I think the answer lies in the question, "Why use Web3 technology in games? While there have been a variety of attempts in the marketplace, such as TCGs where you buy NFTs to build a deck, or MMORPGs where you buy equipment and passes, incorporating blockchain elements without compromising the mainstream gaming experience is still a challenge for everyone. Super Villains Placement RPG's casual functionality combined with the value provided by the in-game economy is what sets it apart from other placement RPGs.

Although it is a Web3 game, the overall player experience will not be very different from other games. However, players will experience retention of the social costs they have invested in the game. The Web3 technology we provide in the background will give users a sense of participation in a game-centered network and allow for community-based decision-making.

Q: You have recently organized various events. How successful have these events been?

A: We held our first event in early February, distributing villain characters and badges and attracting around 60,000 participants. It's worth noting that, in addition to South East Asia, where Web3 games are already popular, 40% of these participants came from regions known for their traditional gaming revenues. This shows that there is a lot of interest from countries where traditional gaming is thriving.

We then organized a campaign to distribute Sidekick capsules. Instead of distributing them directly, we delegated this task to influencers and the gamer community to handle on their own. This was in line with our vision for Web3, which focuses on "how the community interacts with the content". As a result, we achieved the highest daily transaction volume on the Aptos chain during the event.

A particularly impressive result was that the rarest Sidekick traded for about 130 Aptos, which was about $2,300 at the time. This happened before the game's release, and prompted us to think carefully about maintaining game item prices. It is important that game item prices are neither so low as to be worthless, nor so high as to create a barrier to entry.

In order to maintain the value of Sidekicks, we later organized a "Sidekick Fusion" event, where players could combine two Sidekicks and upgrade them. When we hosted this event in May, we maintained the highest daily volume on the Aptos chain for an entire week.

Q: What is the feedback from FGT and internal testing?

A: After testing the game, our investors kept asking "When will the next version be released?". So we take this as a good sign that the initial impression is positive. Internally, we also enjoy playing the game and sharing feedback to improve the game.

Q: What are your expectations for Supervillain Idle RPG upon release?

A: We want it to be a placement RPG that can be enjoyed by a variety of players. ideally, it would be seen as a game that offers an expanded experience through the use of blockchain technology, appealing even to traditional gamers.

Next project: an MMORPG that captures the appeal of short-form content

Q: Let's talk about your next project. Other than it being an MMORPG, is there anything else you can share?

A: This game is slightly different from a traditional MMORPG. Our goal was to create a game that provided the same level of fun as the short content, but with a social element. Although it is an MMORPG, it is designed to be "easy to learn but hard to master".

MMORPGs combine the vast world of an MMO with the character development of an RPG. Our previous projects were more focused on the RPG side of things because of the need to retain existing systems and IP elements. The similarities to traditional RPGs meant that it took longer for players to really enjoy the game.

For this new project, we plan to emphasize more on the MMO aspect. Traditional MMORPGs usually take a lot of time to reach a level where players feel satisfied. To address this, we are designing the game to provide frequent satisfaction and feedback in a shorter cycle.

The gameplay will not limit the player to a traditional career system, but will evolve based on the abilities and weapons the player collects and their proficiency with those weapons. We felt it was important to allow players to define their own concepts, which will allow the game to be presented in a short content style. In this way, it will be somewhat similar to the RPG elements in Roblox.

Q: What is the expected release date?

A: We'll be releasing the game for the first time at the Aptos Experience, where we'll have a booth for people to try out the game. After this event, we plan to test the game every three to four months.

It's hard to give an exact release date, but internally, we're aiming for late next year or the year after.

"We chose Aptos and we have no regrets about that decision."

Q: You're working with Aptos again. I guess when you started Supervillain Labs you received offers from various major networks. What made you choose Aptos again this time?

A: As you said, we have been working with Aptos since the METAPIXEL days. We were among the first to choose Aptos at that time, and we still believe in their capabilities.

Games need to process large amounts of data in real time. So if you plan to do more than just publish NFTs, you need to be able to upload and process the large amounts of data generated by online games on the chain in real time. These features are critical to building user trust based on on-chain data. With this requirement in mind, we believe that high TPS, fast terminality and parallel processing capabilities are essential, making alternative Layer 1 solutions more viable than EVM chains with lower TPS. That's why we chose Aptos, and we have no regrets about that decision.

Aptos was originally designed to handle large amounts of data. It is also well suited for integrating complex game item economies and databases. Even in chained games, players have certain expectations. For example, when a player collects an item, it should appear in their inventory immediately. This is not possible if the end result is not immediate. Even through aggregate processing, issues such as reorganization can lead to discrepancies, and items may show up as processed on the front end but not actually exist in the wallet. These non-negotiable aspects make Aptos particularly suitable.

In our first collaboration with Aptos, we needed to combine their robust technology stack with our specific needs in game development. However, Aptos'mission (diplomatic or other)It is the realization of large-scale adoption by "the people" whose identity coincides with our goal.

We have always emphasized that for blockchain games to be popular with the general public, they need certain standards, and these technical elements are crucial for any gaming company, not just ours. Our discussions have contributed significantly to the current standards. Thanks to this, our second collaboration allows us to more effectively utilize what we have previously built together.

Q: Can you give specific examples of standards that have been developed with Aptos?

A: Initially, Aptos chains did not support object structures. We pointed out that supporting object structure is a significant advantage for game development. In order to achieve greater flexibility and scalability in development, an object model is essential, and Aptos has taken this into account by proposing "Token as Objects (AIP-11)", which even includes our development team as co-authors. Thanks to this, we are now able to build more flexible structures, such as on-chain game account inventories.

Another example is the "payer" model, a solution that is now being proposed by various teams. Initially, there was considerable disagreement. We thought that requiring signatures and gas payments for every game activity would degrade the user experience, while Aptos emphasized the importance of "data sovereignty", where the user should verify and validate every action. By proposing an AIP for the payer model, we found a middle ground between user experience and the spirit of Web3.

The NFT standards used in games follow a similar trajectory. When there are no clear standards at the chain level, the NFT data in our games is often not displayed correctly in the NFT marketplace. We have stressed the importance of standardizing these issues and have collaborated extensively to address them.

One of our big criteria for choosing a chain partner is that they should be a team that can set standards with us, and Aptos fits that criteria perfectly.

Q: How has the partnership with Aptos been from a business perspective?

A: This is positive because Aptos' business goals are very much in line with ours. Other chains often have strong perceptions of what Web3 "should" be. In contrast, Aptos shares our view that Web3 is just a technology that will be widely adopted when the on-chain technology enhances existing experiences without interfering with day-to-day activities.

They were willing to understand when we insisted on a traditional gaming market approach, even if it meant some initial disagreements. They became great partners for us, working with us to find the best solutions.

Supervillain Labs Pursues Coexistence with Community through Web3

Q: You were skeptical about issuing tokens when you were at METAPIXEL. Do you still hold the same position now?

A: Exactly, I'm skeptical about issuing tokens until there are enough fans and community to ask for them. So if you're asking if my overall stance is the same, the answer is yes. Given that no P2E game has yet proven its sustainability, it's hard to avoid being criticized as a Ponzi scheme.

However, when considering how game companies and communities will coexist in the new Web3 era, I recognize that tokens may become a necessity. But it won't come in the form of simple reward-based token economics. So, at this stage, if you ask Supervillain Labs if they need tokens for their games, my answer is "no".

Q: Most users who play Web3 games are primarily interested in tokens, how do you plan to incentivize users without issuing tokens?

A: I don't think users are entirely driven by tokens. Instead, they're more interested in retaining the value they've created by putting effort into the game and being rewarded for their contribution to the growth of the ecosystem. As such, Web3 games shouldn't just offer token rewards; they should offer solutions to these problems.

The most important thing is to create great game content. Secondly, it is vital to create an environment that recognizes the time and effort invested by the user. This starts with retaining the value of in-game assets acquired by users. Our first step is to provide a predictable and transparent item economy and build user-to-user trading activity on top of that.

The next step is to reward the contributions of users who create network effects as part of the community. We plan to address this through a program based on game revenue rather than tokens. It's not just about rewarding marketing partners; the community will evaluate the contributions of various community members (gamers, moderators, content creators, etc.) and reward them based on the revenue generated by the game.

Q: You place a strong emphasis on community. How do you plan to build community?

A: Traditionally, games are kept under wraps until just before release when major marketing takes place. With a few exceptions, this approach makes it difficult to build community during development.

So we took a different approach to sharing our development process and turning it into content. We've even turned team conflicts into content. By showing the vibe of the team, our thought process in creating the game, and what the final product will look like, we believe we can attract people who resonate with this type of content. We'll also reach out to their favorite influencers and communities.

Our goal is not just to increase followers or subscribers; we want these people to start playing the game from the beginning as part of a connected community. We believe this creates a virtuous cycle. You will continue to see us share the process of making the game and updating our content.

Q: Finally, can you share your future plans and some words for fans waiting for the release of Supervillain Idle RPG?

A: There's a lot I'd like to share, but unfortunately some parts are still being refined, so I can't say everything I'd like to say.

At Supervillain Labs, our goal is to create a great product and environment that answers the question, "In the new era of Web3, how should games work with the community to improve services?" We have many diverse and exciting plans, so stay tuned.

Our first project "Supervillain Idle RPG" will be released at the end of July. We're working with our team to make the game easy and fun to play for gamers of all types. Our goal is to create a game that will grow and evolve with the community over time. Thank you for your support!